What killed the FWE? The question we may soon soon be asking...and here's the answer
Posted: Mar 16th 2015 By: Mike Johnson - PWInsider.com
This past Wednesday, FWE, a promotion that has been running the New York City area for the last several years, presented a first-time ever bout with IWGP champion AJ Styles vs. the then-reigning and defending FWE champion John Hennigan aka John Morrison.
It was a match that FWE promoter Jordan Schneider wanted so badly to present that with it being the only night both talents were available, he booked a Wednesday night event in California. Then, when the venue fell through, Schneider opted to re-book his entire show and move it closer to home, Brooklyn, New York.
The match went 30 minutes and was Best of Three Falls. Going in, I wondered how they were going to get around the finish. Was there going to be a run-in? A DQ? A time limit draw? To me, it was fascinating because as much fun athletically as the bout was likely going to be, you never know what wrestling politics are going to play in a finish. Hennigan, as Johnny Mundo, is on Lucha Underground. Styles is the IWGP champion and needs to maintain the prestige of that belt.
It could have been a booking disaster.
Instead, it was one of the nicest surprises of the year as they went over 30 minutes and three falls, with each one ending clean. It was one of most fulfilling independent bouts seen in the NYC area in some time and it capped off a show that I thought, from top to bottom, was one of the best shows FWE has promoted.
A job well done for Jordan Schneider and his team right?
Artistically, sure. Financially, well....not really.
"I want to fall on the sword, " said Schneider this morning via telephone It wasn't the bout or the finish or even the show - broadcast as an iPPV, that led to Schneider's defeated voice as we spoke on the phone Monday AM.
It was the fact that the show, and the match even more prominently than the show, was everywhere from Daily Motion to Youtube to Torrent sites. Schneider's regular customers have been finding and sending links for days and some of them showcase impressions of over 10,000 for the Styles vs. Morrison bout.
"It's frustrating to see everyone complain about there not being alternatives and preach 'support indy wrestling' but then post a bootleg link on the same page," said Schneider. "There were links on our own Facebook page, before the show had even been completed for an hour. I wasn't even out of the building yet. You almost have to laugh. No matter what I say, someone is going to complain about me even mentioning this, but the reality is, all of this hurts the bottom line, not just of me, but anyone promoting at this level"
And in 2015, that is reality.
Like a lot of promotions, FWE's biggest enemy is itself - for trying to present something unique, for trying to grow and for trying to make money. The thousands of impressions are far, far, far beyond the iPPV buys and without the DVD ever being released, will far outlap whatever financial reward the show brings Schneider and the FWE team.
"I could run small crappy shows no one cares to bootleg, but for what?", Schneider said with a sigh. "You want to try and do something you can be proud of."
It's becoming a more common theme amongst the independent level to have these sort of frustrations. No matter how hard the promoters try to out-lap those stealing and sharing and torrenting the shows, money is flying out the window...money they will never see again and desperately need.
Meanwhile, those who have no part in the shows are posting them and perhaps even monetizing the material with ad impressions on their own sites, making it a double whammy for promoters like Schneider and others who are running literally, off their own finances, trying to bring people in the doors with a good lineup and good wrestling and hoping, at the end of the day, it's all enough to live and fight another day.
Living and fighting another day, however, is getting harder and harder.
The independent wrestling world, like everything else, has changed with technology. VHS sales used to be enough to keep ECW alive. DVD sales built the foundation of Ring of Honor. iPPV powered WWNLive.com. Direct downloads have been a mark of CHIKARA'S business. FWE has done all of that, plus live streams on Youtube (giving complete shows away) and what has it gotten them?
They draw respectable crowds in Queens, Manhattan and Brooklyn, but as Jordan said, "I don't just want to run Brooklyn for the rest of my life. I want to build something here and I want to build something for and with my friends that we can look back on."
What is most fascinating about all of this is that the fans, who in theory, are the most likely to want to support and watch a product like FWE are in many cases, the fans who aren't going to pay for it, just because, hey, why should we, since we don't have to.
That attitude has cut into a lot of independent projects. Tommy Dreamer recently estimated that his House of Hardcore 7 iPPV ended up, on just ONE site, with the type of views that would have equaled close to a million dollars if people had, you know, actually paid the $15 for the iPPV. Now, whether that would have actually happened in reality or not, no one will ever know, but the chances are, it won't ever happen, because some fans out there shrug and don't care.
But here's why you should.
Tommy Dreamer recently wrote a statement trying to explain to fans that the type of money lost was the thing that could not only change his life but the lives of wrestlers who would work for him and the fans that wanted to support his product. In some circles, he was vilified for actually wanting to see people pay to watch something that's coming out of his own pocket, money he could instead keep in a bank account for his children's college education...but Dreamer is trying to build something for fans, because he wants there to be pro wrestling that he loves.
But, hey, it's OK, because he made his money off ECW and WWE and he's got more to piss away than anyone reading this likely will have, right?
Well, how about the case of John Philapavage and Kevin Kiernan, two independent film-makers from Pennsylvania who turned to fans to help complete their "Barbed Wire City" documentary? The process took them close to a DECADE of interviews, editing and starting and stopping as life got in the way. The film was released and while mostly critically loved, it was online before the DVDs had even been mailed for the second batch of orders and while the initial printing of DVDs were sold, what John and Kevin had to show for themselves after a decade? Something that was worth so little that plans to eventually do a "Director's Cut" have pretty much screeched to a halt because the time and effort vs. the money to be made don't exactly make sense to continue the work, especially given their full-time occupations.
So, now we are talking about two guys who just wanted to make a movie to document something they found interesting and at the end of the day, what was that passion and work really worth? I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that, but whatever it was worth, was certainly sliced thinner by digital files and burned DVDs making the rounds, with zero cents ever landing in the hands of those who toiled on the film....and these aren't guys who had six figure WWE salaries to stuff money away into savings accounts. They are guys, who like you and me, live check to check, in the real world.
Now, we return to FWE. Let's say the promotion decides to shut down. Certainly others will rise to their take place and promote whatever the next Styles vs. Morrison level bout could be, but I find myself more concerned for the Mike Laws, the Jorge Santis, the VSKs and the Wes Dravens of the promotion.
You may not know those names and perhaps you don't care to know them, but they are just some of the local NYC talents who have been working regularly for the promotion and don't get a lot of work outside of it. I don't know that any of them will go on to get a NXT deal or headline Wrestlemania, but let's say, somewhere out there, now or in the future, there is someone out there who will...and they are using a promotion like FWE to cut their teeth...only to have FWE (or it's fantasy equivalent) shut down...and impede their progress?
Or, look at it this way: What if ECW shut down and there was nowhere for Eddie Guerrero to come and make his name in the United States? What if ROH had shuttered operations before Samoa Joe or CM Punk could build their legend? What if IWS in Montreal shut down when Kevin Steen and El Generico were rookies?
Perhaps all those name would have persevered and evolved and grown up in the business to eventually make big money...or perhaps those promotions dying an early death would have sentenced them to being weekend warriors who's dreams were never fulfilled. How do you know for sure?
The reality is that we'll never know and I'm glad we don't, but I also don't want to see what happens to a Tony Nese or a Ben Ortiz or an Alex Reynolds if the smaller groups they work for continue to bleed out potential earnings, just for the crimes of trying to create and make money...because at the end of the day, that's really all they have done wrong...tried to make money by creating something memorable.
There's no easy answers here. Championship Wrestling Hollywood has tried to do a fan donation strategy ($2 a month!) and it's never gotten out of the gates. FWE has tried to give away it's product for free as a way to build to an additional iPPV the next night...only to see both shows leaked online.
So, what killed the FWE? Nothing yet but it's hard to ignore when someone shoots you in the chest with a shotgun and the reality is, that's what happened to the promotion over the last few days. What should be a celebratory lap is now a race to the emergency room as they now have to weigh the pros and cons of going forward. There are no guarantees in life, for sure, but to run a business where the only guarantee is you find yourself feeling ripped off...well no restaurant or store or even wrestling promotion is going to survive that way...nor should it.
It's getting to the point where you have to wonder if the real future will be promoters running live events and then never releasing the footage, just so they can be guaranteed the money that comes from the live gate. Even if one fan sneaks it, it beats 100,000 watching your tapes for free....but then, that leaves Jordan Schneider and a lot of others delegated to just running smaller shows for the rest of their lives....and that wasn't the plan or dream when these promotions launched.....but neither was watching any potential revenue fly away into a cloud they can't control and in many cases, can't afford to try to.
So, what could kill FWE? House of Hardcore? EVOLVE? CHIKARA? AAW? AIW? A multitude of other companies?
The fact that so many people want to watch their products without actually supporting those products....sooner or later, something is going to give and it's pretty obvious what that's going to be.
In 2015, this is reality...and something to think about if you truly love pro wrestling.
Supplemental Information
Latest News
Jeff Jarrett on TNA: “The writing is on the wall and it’s in super glue”
TNA founder Jeff Jarrett recently discussed (on his My World podcast) the much reported “f... Read More
The Spotlight: Greg Valentine
Over a career that spanned more than three decades, Valentine became one of the most respected and feared competitors in professional wrestli... Read More
Carlito talks departing WWE, time in Judgment Day, Bron Breakker spear, and more
Former WWE Superstar Carlito sat down with Chris Van Vliet in Indianapolis, IN to discuss ... Read More
Spotlight in History
- 1961 The Bolos (Great Bolo 1st & Mighty Bolo) became the TSW Southwestern Tag Team Champions
- 1987 Frankie Lancaster & Eric Embry def. The Fantastics (Tommy Rogers & Bobby Fulton) for the WCCW World Tag Team Titles
- 1999 Tarantula def. Original Renegade for the OPW Oklahoma Light Heavyweight Title
- 2005 Li'l Joe def. Phillip for the ACW Hardcore Title
- 2009 Brandon Groom def. The Handsome Spoiler for the TOPW Oklahoma Heavyweight Title
- 2009 Kevin James Sanchez def. Bobby Starr for the BYEW Entertainment Title
- 2021 Most Wanted (Dan Webber & Reese) def. Los Loco Moscas (Elijah Sparks & El Greengo Loco) for the WAH Tag Team Titles
- 2025 Microman def. Mini Abismo Negro for the EDW Heavyweight Title
Week of Sun 06-21 to Sat: 06-27
- 06-21 1982 Junkyard Dog def. Bob Roop for the MSW North American Heavyweight Title
- 06-21 1987 Al Perez def. The Dingo Warrior for the WCCW Texas Heavyweight Title
- 06-21 2003 Kitty def. Manservant for the TPW Womens Title
- 06-21 2008 Tim Rockwell def. El Super Colibri for the ComPro Oklahoma X Division Title
- 06-21 2008 Li'l Joe def. Xavior for the GPCW Cruiserweight Title
- 06-21 2014 Buster Cherry def. Havoc for the SWCW All-American Title
- 06-21 2024 Big Sed def. Sam Adonis for the TexPro Heavyweight Title
- 06-21 2025 Dan Webber became the LCW Lionheart Champion
- 06-22 2005 Phillip def. Se7en for the ACW Hardcore Title
- 06-22 2018 Joe Cuedo def. Brock Baker for the ComPro Oklahoma X Division Title
- 06-22 2024 Pastor Brent def. Daniel Aaron Michalles for the WAH Hunger Dojo Title
- 06-22 2024 Daniel Aaron Michalles def. Pastor Brent for the WAH Hunger Dojo Title
- 06-22 2025 Billie the Kiid def. Dan Webber for the ASP Heavyweight Title
- 06-23 1972 Billy Red Lyons def. The Spoiler for the WCCW American Heavyweight Title
- 06-23 1980 Mr. Hito & Mr. Sakurada def. Jose Lothario & Tiger Conway Jr. for the WCCW American Tag Team Titles
- 06-23 1982 Ted DiBiase def. Junkyard Dog for the MSW North American Heavyweight Title
- 06-23 1984 Gino Hernandez became the WCCW Texas Heavyweight Champion
- 06-23 1989 The Stud Stable (Robert Fuller & Brian Lee) def. Jeff Jarrett & Mil Mascaras for the WCCW World Tag Team Titles
- 06-23 2001 Big Daddy Moore def. Adam Lacroix for the OPW Oklahoma Television Title
- 06-23 2001 Grenade became the OPW Oklahoma Light Heavyweight Champion
- 06-23 2009 Joshua Michael & Epic became the ACW Tag Team Champions
- 06-23 2023 Dustin Tibbs def. Thrash for the WFC Prime Title
- 06-24 1972 Stan Stasiak def. Red Bastien for the WCCW Texas Heavyweight Title
- 06-24 1974 Bull Ramos def. Rip Tyler for the TSW North American Title
- 06-24 1977 John Studd became the WCCW Texas Brass Knuckles Champion
- 06-24 1985 The Dynamic Duo (Gino Hernandez & Chris Adams) def. The Fantastics (Tommy Rogers & Bobby Fulton) for the WCCW American Tag Team Titles
- 06-24 2000 Great Bolo [2nd] def. Ichiban [2nd] for the OPW Oklahoma Light Heavyweight Title
- 06-24 2000 Ichiban [2nd] became the OPW Oklahoma Light Heavyweight Champion
- 06-24 2005 Spoiler 2000 became the NWA-U Television Champion
- 06-24 2006 Prophet SteVens became the AACW Television Champion
- 06-24 2007 Matt Garza became the MSWA Mid-South Cruiserweight Champion
- 06-24 2016 Dynamic Shields (Justin Dynamic & Shawn Shields) def. Terry Montana & Mighty Mouse for the ComPro Tag Team Titles
- 06-24 2016 Seth Angel def. Steven Cruze for the ComPro Showtime Title
- 06-24 2016 Adrian Dell def. Nathan Estrada for the ComPro Oklahoma X Division Title
- 06-24 2017 Drake Gallows became the ASP Heavyweight Champion
- 06-24 2017 Excellence Personified (Duke Swellington & Dustin Heritage) def. Shawn Hendrix & Aaron Anders (substituting for Anthony Andrews) for the ComPro Tag Team Titles
- 06-24 2017 Dynamic Shields (Justin Dynamic & Shawn Shields) def. Big Smooth & Zakk Sinizter for the UWE Tag Team Titles
- 06-24 2018 Shawn Sanders def. Chaz Sharpe for the ASP Inter-County Title
- 06-24 2018 Canadian Red Devil def. Adam Patrick for the ASP Mid-American Title
- 06-24 2020 Warren Powers def. Giganto for the BPW 365 Title
- 06-24 2023 Stage Dive Mafia (Rook Tyler & Axel Savage) became the BCW Tag Team Champions
- 06-24 2023 C. M. Burnham def. Lunchador for the WAH Hunger Dojo Title
- 06-24 2023 Lunchador def. C. M. Burnham for the WAH Hunger Dojo Title
- 06-25 2011 Sam Stackhouse def. Shane Morbid for the BYEW Heavyweight Title
- 06-25 2011 The Sons of Ireland (Devan Scott & Shane Scott) def. The New Age Syndicate (Scott Sanders & Shawn Sanders) for the BYEW Tag Team Titles
- 06-25 2011 Chris Chaos became the BYEW Caution Champion
- 06-25 2011 The Future Hall of Famers (John O'Malley & Brad Michaels) def. Bernie D & Aaron Neil (subbing for Max McGuirk) for the IZW Tag Team Titles
- 06-25 2016 Brian Breaker def. Zakk Sinizter for the UWE Heavyweight Title
- 06-25 2017 The Cub Scouts (Grizzly Gates & Brock Landers) became the MSWA Mid-South Tag Team Champions
- 06-26 1961 The Bolos (Great Bolo 1st & Mighty Bolo) became the TSW Southwestern Tag Team Champions
- 06-26 1987 Frankie Lancaster & Eric Embry def. The Fantastics (Tommy Rogers & Bobby Fulton) for the WCCW World Tag Team Titles
- 06-26 1999 Tarantula def. Original Renegade for the OPW Oklahoma Light Heavyweight Title
- 06-26 2005 Li'l Joe def. Phillip for the ACW Hardcore Title
- 06-26 2009 Brandon Groom def. The Handsome Spoiler for the TOPW Oklahoma Heavyweight Title
- 06-26 2009 Kevin James Sanchez def. Bobby Starr for the BYEW Entertainment Title
- 06-26 2021 Most Wanted (Dan Webber & Reese) def. Los Loco Moscas (Elijah Sparks & El Greengo Loco) for the WAH Tag Team Titles
- 06-26 2025 Microman def. Mini Abismo Negro for the EDW Heavyweight Title
- 06-27 1969 Wahoo McDaniel & Thunderbolt Patterson became the WCCW American Tag Team Champions
- 06-27 1971 Johnny Valentine def. Toru Tanaka for the WCCW Texas Brass Knuckles Title
- 06-27 1976 Jose Lothario def. The Mongolian Stomper for the WCCW Texas Brass Knuckles Title
- 06-27 2009 Randy Price def. Dustin Heritage for the IZW Impact Division Title
- 06-27 2009 Martin Justice became the OECW Southwestern Champion
- Jax Samuel Jun 26th Today!
- Paul Rodriguez Jun 26th Today!
- D. K. Bradley Jun 26th Today!
- Sylvia Richmond Jun 26th Today!
- Ignition Jun 27th
- Reckless Jun 27th
- Jason Kirby Jun 27th
- Dan Barnhart Jun 27th
- Kuda Jun 27th
- Boris Malenko Jun 28th
- Damian Kincaid Jun 28th
- Kenny Mack Jun 28th
- Bill Dromo Jun 28th
- Malico Jun 28th
- J. J. Blake Jun 28th
- John Tidwell Jun 28th
- Doc Hearon Jun 28th
- Claire Jun 28th
- Voltio Santiago Jun 29th
- Barbara Galento Jun 29th
- Killaman Jaro Jun 29th
- Kenneth Caine Jun 30th
- Ed Lewis Jun 30th
- Terry Funk Jun 30th
- Tim WarCloud Jul 1st
- Li'l Joe Jul 1st
- Jake Hollister Jul 1st
- Sung Yung Kang Jul 1st
- Crowson D. Calhoun Jul 2nd
- Dalton Smith Jul 2nd
- Rex Andrews Jul 2nd
- Wrangler Rhett Jul 2nd
- Arman Hussein Jul 3rd
- Joe Sloan Jul 3rd
- Rachael Starz Jul 3rd
- Ray the Bae Jul 3rd
- Greatest American Bolo Jul 4th
- Bob Sweetan Jul 4th
- Blake Wilson Jul 4th
- Bree Ann Jul 4th
- Barry Windham Jul 4th
- Terry Kage Jul 5th
- Little Tokyo Jul 5th
- Roland Kirchmeyer Jul 5th
- Richard Pierce Jul 5th
- Dalton Bragg Jul 6th
- Sandor Kovacs Jul 7th
- Steven Sterling Jul 7th
- Toby Keith Jul 8th
- Thunderbolt Patterson Jul 8th
- Tuck Davion Jul 8th
- AXL Jul 9th
- Alexander Gold Jul 9th
- Jerry Grey Jul 9th
- Ralph Hammonds Jul 9th
- Skidz Jul 9th
Card Results
- UWO · Jun 25th 2026 · Oklahoma City
- TexPro · Jun 20th 2026 · Ardmore
- UWO · Jun 18th 2026 · Norman
- UWO · Jun 14th 2026 · Oklahoma City
- UWO · Jun 13th 2026 · Oklahoma City
- BUW · Jun 12th 2026 · Tulsa
- UWO · Jun 11th 2026 · Oklahoma City
- WFC · Jun 6th 2026 · Broken Arrow
- UWO · Jun 5th 2026 · Oklahoma City
- CPW · Jun 5th 2026 · Sand Springs
- 3CW
- 3DW
- 412PE
- AACW
- ACW
- AdCW
- AEW
- AmWF
- ASP
- AWA
- AWE
- AWF
- AWFUL
- BB
- BBOW
- BCW
- BHW
- BLOW
- BMLL
- BPPW
- BPW
- BSWF
- BTW
- BUW
- BYEW
- CAPW
- CCW
- ComPro
- CPW
- CWE
- CWF
- CXW
- DAE
- DEMW
- DI2IW
- ECW
- EDW
- EmpCW
- EMWF
- EPW
- FCW
- FIW
- FTE
- GPCW
- GWF
- GWF2016
- HPB
- ICW
- IMPACT
- IPW
- IWR
- IWW
- IZW
- JCW
- KCW
- LA
- LCW
- LDU
- LLQ
- LLR
- MajCW
- MAW
- MCW
- MERC
- MidAW
- MidSWA
- MMWF
- MPW
- MSPW
- MStW
- MSW
- MSWA
- MVSC
- MWA
- MWAS
- MWF
- MWW
- NAW
- NCW
- NCWO
- NEW
- NMS
- NWA
- NWA-FTA
- NWA-OK
- NWA-TXO
- NWA-U
- NWA-West
- NXT
- NXW
- OCCW
- OCW
- OECW
- OKX
- OPW
- OWA
- OWF
- OWP
- PWR
- PWTV
- PZWA
- RDW
- ROH
- RSW
- RWE
- SCW
- SCWF
- SECW
- SLPW
- SoCW
- SPW
- SRPW
- StCW
- SWCW
- TAP
- TAZW
- TCBW
- TCW
- TexPro
- TIW
- TNA
- TOPW
- TPW
- TSW
- TxPW
- UCW
- USWA
- UWE
- UWF
- UWF06
- UWO
- W4CW
- WAH
- WCCW
- WCP
- WCR
- WCW
- WCW92
- WFA
- WFC
- WIA
- WLW
- WTW
- WWE
- WWEmp
- WWF
- WWG
- WWW
- XMW
- XUW


