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Dexter Hardaway interviewed by CM Burnham

Posted: Aug 14th 2005 By: oklastaff

CMBurnham: Thank you for doing this.

Dexter Hardaway: You?re welcome.

CM: I guess we?ll start with some of the standard questions. Were you a wrestling fan growing up?

DH: Yes, I was.

CM: Who did you like?

DH: The usual. Hulk Hogan. He?s a big influence on just about anybody who gets into wrestling. I was a real big fan of the Rockers. Of course, I got into the business around late ?95, so that was after they did the split. Sting. He?s like Hogan. He?s one of the ultimate babyfaces in the business. Guys like that. I didn?t really like a lot of old-timers. I liked Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Rock-N-Roll Express. That?s about it as far as old-timers.

CM: Did you go to wrestling shows when you were young?

DH: Yeah. It was every Saturday & Sunday they had it at the Pavillion and out at the Civic Centre downtown. Every time it was there.

CM: How did you decide to get into the business?

DH: I wanted to find some way in. I knew I had a passion for doing it and the original way I thought I could get in was by trying out to be an announcer for the World Wrestling Empire. That didn?t happen. Pete Maguire got that job. A couple of weeks later, I started going to the shows on a regular basis and got into a little shoving argument with Renegade. He used to take NWO signs and he?d rip them up and he pissed me off one night and I decided I was going to be a big man and shove him and lo and behold he wanted to kill me that night! I thought he was just working me. I thought he was just messing around. That wasn?t the case. About 2 weeks later I called Devlin Blanchard. I called to apologise to him. 2 or 3 nights later I was up there apologizing to Renegade and the rest is history. I started training after that.

CM: How long did your training last and who was it that actually trained you?

DH: My training initially lasted 4 months. I was trained by Bolo. Not a lot by (Red) Eagle, a little bit. The main ones were Bolo, Chuck Singer, Ian (St. James) and Zane (Morris).

CM: When did you have your first match and who was it against?

DH: My first match was against the only surviving student in our class. There were 6 of us to start out and I thought at the rate things were going in the beginning me & him would be one of the first ones to drop out. It didn?t happen like that. It was March 20, 1996 and it was against Steve Rumley. Me & him actually tagged together a few times after that before he retired. He?s got a nice little job. He still comes around to the shows.

CM: And were you Dexter Hardaway at that time?

DH: Uh-Huh. I?ve always been Dexter.

CM: Did you choose that name?

DH: I chose part of it. I?ve never been good with coming up with characters. I?m good with the now and "Why are we doing this now?&aquot I?ve never been good with trying to come up with characters for myself, let alone anyone else. One night we were sitting around playing some wrestling video games and it popped into Zane?s head: "Dexter Hardtimes". I liked the basketball player Penny Hardaway from the Orlando Magic at the time and out of the blue I said "Hardaway" and it?s as simple as that.

CM: Now was this first match for the Empire or had they shut down at this point?

DH: No, they had shut down. I started training with them and then I would say somewhere around the first of the year they had shut down and then from there Devlin had opened up things with MCW (Maximum Championship Wrestling) and that?s where I had my first match.

CM: What was your relationship with Devlin like?

DH: It was different. Great workout partners. He was a good wrestler when he wanted to be. Acquaintences. Friends. Other than that I didn?t know him personally.

CM: Did you have a lot of relationship with Generation X still at that point?

DH: Oh yeah. After I started, they kind of took me under their wing. They informed me that someone else was trying to get a company going, which later on was Rocco (Valentino) when he started OPW (Oklahoma Pro Wrestling). They kind of took me under their wing in the beginning. I was young, kind of like they were. I think Zane is 3 years older than me. He?s 29. I was around the same age. Everyone else was a little older, so it just kind of clicked.

CM: How many shows did you do for MCW before they went under?

DH: I?m gonna say 2.

CM: I knew they didn?t last very long.

DH: The memories is kind of fadey there, but it couldn?t have been anymore than 3 shows.

CM: How did you get connected to OPW?

DH: One night, Zane & James came to me stating that Rocco was thinking of starting up a company away from Devlin. As a matter of fact, it all started on the first show I wrestled. Some things happened between Devlin and Generation X. Rocco decided he was going to start his own company. He was looking for workers and I guess at the time they thought that I was decent enough that they thought I could get a lot better and they decided to give me a chance. So, the original people who were asked to start OPW were: Ian, Zane, Rocco, Jimmy Kane, Red Eagle, Great Bolo, Chuck Singer and?other people here and there were invited in, but that was the main group of people who started out. And Renegade.

CM: When you went into OPW, were you immediately put together with Chuck or was that something that happened later on?

DH: They needed a tag team besides things they?d already seen before. The Outlaws vs. Generation X. Same old same old. Up until that point it had been Devlin & Doc Savage all the time. They were looking for someone new. Chuck & Devlin were tagging and they were looking for someone new. Right place, right time. Chuck asked me. I guess he saw something in me. He asked me if I wanted to go travel up to Kansas with him. Every week for a year straight, I traveled up to Kansas with him. A couple months after that, he started asking me to tag with him. The rest is history. We did our thing and we pulled off some great matches, I might add.

CM: You guys were managed by Steve Hartley, weren?t you?

DH: Uh-huh.

CM: What are your memories of Steve at that time?

DH: He was one of those people I didn?t know personally. I thought he was a cool guy. He could talk his ass off. There?s not a person around here who can touch him on the stick. Personally, he?s like a lot of us. He has demons. Sometimes you can deal with those demons, sometimes you can?t. When he could, he was a cool person. He was Shaun Hensley. But when that Steve Hartley light turned on, it was 100%.

CM: You guys defeated Generation X for the OPW Tag Team Titles. You were the second tag champions in their history. Any memories of that match?

DH: Yeah, I do. There?s 2 matches. That match took place?I?m gonna say about a month before the first OPW show at Riverlanes. We took the belts from them. I?m still green as a hornet. I made the mistake of slapping Zane really, really hard and getting that look in his face. You know when you?ve done something to make someone really mad and they just give you a look and don?t say a word? He chased me around the ring and that was the first time I was scared to death. I was afraid he was going to shoot on me. Take me down.

CM: How long did you stay in OPW before you decided to go somewhere else?

DH: I?d say a year. Maybe not even that.

CM: Did you leave because you were frustrated with the situation you were in there or was there an outside influence?

DH: Things happened at a wrestling show in Arkansas. There was an issue with money involving Pete and Rocco. One thing led to another. They didn?t really like what happened, what certain wrestlers got paid on that show. I don?t even really remember us not being invited back. We started traveling. Me, Jimmy Kane, Ian & Zane. Started traveling back and forth down to Texas. We did a trip up to Canada. Place in between. I think there was just a falling out there, maybe on Rocco & Pete?s part. Not jealousy, but feelings were hurt. Maybe they thought we should have stayed there and wrestled for them, but in my opinion, I was young. I wanted to do this all my life. Are you kidding me? I?m gonna take the chance to go out and travel. I want to gain that experience and that?s exactly what happened. I learned a lot.

CM: You mentioned going to down to work in Texas. You went down and worked for Ken Taylor in NWA-Southwest. What were your impressions of Ken?

DH: First impression was he?s just some guy with money. He had other people run his business for him, he just paid everybody. Ken?s a nice guy, I?m sure, but when it comes to the wrestling business, he doesn?t have a clue.

CM: You worked down there with some people who would go on to become relatively famous and work for the WWE. Rodney Mack & Jazz as well as...

DH: Kevin Northcutt. It was cool working for those guys, once you got to know them. There?s a lot of attitude down there. I made friends with pretty much everybody. I wanted to experience things. I never wanted to get heat intentionally with anybody because I wanted to travel. I wanted to learn the business. I was all gung-ho about it. Rodney Mack and Jazz: 2 of the coolest people I?ve ever met. To this day, it?s just like it was 7, 8 years ago. Down to earth. Kevin Northcutt, he?s a good guy. Who else was down there?

CM: You worked Koko B. Ware.

DH: I worked Koko B. Ware. I worked with the Honky Tonk Man. At that time, when we started going down there, there was a company called BBOW (Bad Boys of Wrestling), run by a man by the name of Ed Beckley, who did monster trucks and did wrestling as a side show. A lot of us got hooked up with him. Again: same clique: me, Ian , Zane. We were always traveling together. And those shows were cool. We made money. We lived. We partied like crazy. And for an 18-year old to get hang out and party with the likes of a Rod Price and a Terry Gordy and Honky and guys like that, I was marking out from the beginning. I was enjoying that.

CM: When did you meet Jay Diego and form NC-17?

DH: I met Jay through someone. I can?t recall right now. I met him at a little spot show in Texas. Seemed like a real good wrestler. Got to be good friends with him. I eventually moved down to Texas. When I did, they invited me to come stay with them, he and his girlfriend Sugar, who is now his wife. One thing led to another and we became good friends and we decided "Hey. Let?s try tagging up.". I felt at the time that he was a better wrestler than I was. Again, I wanted to get experience. I wanted to tag with somebody and see what that was like. I saw what Zane & James were doing. It?s a little easier being a tag team. It?s a little bit more entertaining at times watching a tag team match then a singles. So I wanted to do something different.

CM: I was reading on an old page that Jay had created where he said that you went around the circuit and it seemed to him that you ended up wrestling each other more than you ended up tagging together.

DH: Yep. It was funny because we decided, "Alright, we?re gonna tell everybody we?re a tag team. Please book us as a tag team." One thing led to another and it seemed like everywhere we?d go, we?d say "We?d like to be a tag team. Please book us as a tag team." Well, they?d end up putting us together in a singles match. They?d set up a tournament or something like that. Back then, when I was down there, there was a start-up company every other week. We were traveling around Thursday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday. There was always work down there and we figured we could get booked as a tag team one or two places. Ended up we got booked together every now & then. You?re right, we wrestled each other more than we ever tagged.

CM: At the same time you were wrestling down there, were you also going over into Arkansas?

DH: Uh-huh.

CM: You worked for a company called Global Pro Wrestling. You were their first Light-Heavyweight Champion.

DH: I wrestled for Matt Duffield. Where was that at? It was some little podunk town in Arkansas, southeast Arkansas. Little, no more than a population of 500. Less than that, probably. He?s a good guy. He was young. He was still in high school at the time. He ran several shows after that. I don?t believe he?s running anything anymore. I wish he was. He had a good head on his shoulders. A nice little set-up. Everything was professional. We got paid when we walked in the door. That?s when you knew things were professional; if you?re going to do an important show, you get paid when you walk in the door. Matt was in high school. He was 17 years old. Just like everyone else, it was his dream to try and do this and he did it. He did a decent job at it. His first show he got 500 people packed into a little high school gym in a town that probably didn?t even have 500 people. That was cool. I wish he would do more shows. I believe he still does shows now & then, just not as Global.

CM: What led you back to Oklahoma?

DH: I just wanted to wrestle in my home, man. My mom always enjoyed wrestling. She was always the one who took me to the Mid-South shows. I wanted to see what I could do to wrestle back here. That way, if she wanted to, she could come see. For 2 years, I did nothing but traveling. For an 18-year old to move to a big city like Dallas, TX, it?s kind of like culture shock, man. You wake up. It?s a bigger city. It moves a little faster. I want to say I grew up a little bit when I did that. Not a lot of 18-year olds get to do things like that, get to travel at a young age and experience that and party and do this and that. So I think I was fortunate and I learned a lot coming back and I just wanted to wrestle at home again.

CM: You came back in January of 2001. You and Tarantula teamed up against New Genesis. Any memories of that match?

DH: We took a beat down.

CM: Yes, you did.

DH: And a damn good one too. Made them look like a million bucks. That was cool doing that. Wasn?t much of a match, as far as I remember. We knew we were supposed to go in there and do it and we went in there and did it.

CM: After you made that return, you were gone for about 7 months. I can only find you working about 3 matches for OPW.

DH: I was hurt part of the time. The other part of the time, just personal reasons. I needed a break from it. Everybody gets burnt out, whether it be on your job, in this case wrestling, whatever. I was burnt out, needed a little time away.

CM: Did the locker room in OPW seem different when you came back from when you had left?

DH: There?s a few people I didn?t know, but other than that Bolo & Eagle, familiar faces were there. You go to school, you see familiar faces. It?s all good.

CM: Sometime between March & September of 2001, you went over and worked for Harley Race in World League Wrestling. What was your impression of him?

DH: My first impression of Harley was a little intimidating. I was really nervous. No matter who told me to calm down, it just wasn?t happening. I went up there with a purpose to get better, to learn from somebody who?s been there, done that and made money at the business. And knew what it takes to get you there to the top. I did for that and my own personal enjoyment as well. Harley Race is like a father to everybody he?s involved with. He was a great friend. He likes to drink. He?s a drinkin? man, but he deserves it. He did a lot of hard work. He sacrificed a lot for this business. He bled a lot for this business. Nothing but props to Harley & his wife and the rest of his family.

CM: One of my favourite matches that I saw in the OPW pantheon was your match against Splash Jackson. The Fans Bring the Weapons Match where you built that "thing" in the ring. Any memories of that match?

DH: Yeah. That whole day, I thought, "What are we gonna do to make this different?" It can?t be the same old, just hitting people with garbage. I swear for 2 hours, I set 2 chairs, the Gatorade bucket there that we had, and the board together and it just wouldn?t work. And finally, I just thought "Whatever. If we do it, it happens." It actually turned out better the way it did by falling down and me having to pick it back up and going "Oh shit!" It got a pop from the locker room and a pop from the people. So that was fun. That was one of my funner matches.

CM: When you came back full-time, you were put into the Light Heavyweight division. Was that a comfortable thing for you to be in?

DH: Yeah, that was fun. The only thing I wasn?t comfortable with was I?d gone off and I?d learned from being in Texas, I?d learned from Johnny Valentine, I?d learned from Black Bart, guys who were, in my opinion, experts at psychology. I?d learned great wrestling up at the Harley Race camp. That was cool. I was comfortable in that spot. I knew my role. They wanted it moving and I like to throw in entertainment instead of just move and fly. Yeah, I was comfortable in what I was doing.

CM: Any memories of your match where you won the OPW Light Heavyweight Title from Grenade?

DH: No, just a simple match. I was always taught that a belt is something that helps a person get over. It?s just a gimmick, it really doesn?t mean anything. Well, that?s true until you actually win your first belt. Then it means something to you. It was cool. It was a first. But other than that, just a simple match. From what I recall, it was a pretty good match, too.

CM: You were around when Justin Lee came in to train and he was still working with his backyard federation, ICF. I remember an angle about you going to one of his shows to set up his match with you for his debut.

DH: That never happened. Me & Luc (Lapointe) went to one of their shows. I think it was the afternoon before they first came in that Saturday night and actually were involved with the show. That never really accumulated to anything, so we just went to watch one of their shows.

CM: Any memories of your match with Justin where you dropped the Light Heavyweight Title to him?

DH: I knew what they were trying to accomplish. I?m the last person around here who has a big head. I thought it was a little quick. I thought that there should have been a little more to it, that way it could have a bigger punch at the end. But again, I knew what he was trying to accomplish. No complaints. The match was OK. For someone who was having their first match, it was decent. There were things that could have been done better. I think it was rushed, but they were getting over and when someone is getting over, you?ve gotta do something with them before it?s too late.

CM: You had a rematch with Justin in October of that year and then you were again missing for the first half of 2002.

DH: Things happen. People tend to get attitudes. I just wanted to get away from things because Justin and Kenny (Campbell)?there were new people coming in. I guess you could say that I felt a little threatened that my spot was going to be taken. More than that, I was little uncomfortable with how things were going. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff going on, a lot of hush-hush, a lot of talk about this and that. After a while, that just gives a person a headache. It?s like telling a person a secret and then 10 days from now, everybody knows the secret. It just gives you a headache sometimes.

CM: Were you surprised when you heard that OPW had lost Riverlanes and did you think it would lead to the end of the federation?

DH: I was up in Missouri training at that time. I was in contact back and forth. I think I?d post messages here and there. I would keep in contact with some of the people down here to find out what was going on. I was talking to Rick Vyper and he said that it had been sold. Actually, what I was originally told was that he was looking for a buyer and that didn?t accumulate to anything. And then I hear that John Crow bought it, some guy who says he knows me from back in the days of dealing with Devlin. When I came back when I was done with my training at Harley?s, I came back down here and he asked me to work and I worked and you?ve probably got some questions coming up here about OCW, so I?ll stop there.

CM: What were your impressions when you first met John?

DH: Nice guy. Little ignorant when it came to things. He knew what he wanted to do, he just didn?t know how to get there. I really think that if he had the right people in place, he might still be doing this. I can?t say that for sure because I was out of the loop. I had no say in what was done and why they did things. That wasn?t really my call, just my opinion. John was nice. There were new people starting to come in. Some of the older guys were phasing out like Renegade & Eagle, guys like that. Guys that were coming towards the end of their careers. Things were changing, like when I got in the business around late ?95. Things were starting to change a little bit. It was getting to be more entertainment than it was wrestling anymore. It used to be a sport and now it?s not. Now it?s strictly entertainment. I digress, but ?

CM: It?s your interview.

DH: Yeah, I can digress all I want to, can?t I?

CM: During this time when you were out, but were still in Oklahoma, you attempted a few times to write a column for the OCW website.

DH: I tried. Apparently my opinions were a little strong. Or the opinions that insinuated things were a little strong.

CM: What led to the formation of Northern Threat?

DH: Again, you do a lot of something and after a while, it just becomes stale. That?s one thing I can say without boosting my ego. I think I have always been entertaining. Anytime I step in that ring, I try to judge what people want and I try to be entertaining in any way possible. I felt at the time that I was getting stale. I needed to do something different, something that was fun. At the time, I believe Luc?s partner had just quit to go back to school. I was watching Luc. I believe he was brought in and helped out a little bit by Zane & James and Malice. I first met Luc over in Arkansas and that was when OPW was going on over at Riverlanes. Then I ran into him again in OCW. One thing led to another and we just kind of clicked. Started hanging out. Started working out together as a tag team.

CM: In OCW, you were still a light heavyweight, but you were moving over into their hardcore division. You had a bunch of matches with Terry Montana and the Shadow of Death.

DH: Terry is a great guy. He?s one of my best friends. He?s one of those people that you can depend on for anything. If it was 3:00AM, I wouldn?t be afraid to call Terry up and say, "Hey, man. I need help. I need my car unlocked." or something. I knew he would be there. He?ll be the first to admit that he is not technically sound, whatsoever, but I?ll be damned if he can?t go out there and put on a good fight. And he?s entertaining when he does it, so what more can you ask for? He?s a good guy. Shadow of Death, he?s?he?s nuts. Both of them are. They?ve never done anything to make me mad. I don?t have heat with them. They?re cool. Again, not technically sound, but fun to watch, fun to wrestle with, fun to fight.

CM: On Oct 12, 2002, you had a match which I have a feeling to somebody must have looked good on paper, but in my own opinion, I just shake my head and say "What were they thinking?" That was the Hardcore-vs-NonHardcore match with you vs. Justin.

DH: I don?t really know what the concept behind that was. I think it was "Hey, this guy?s got heat with this guy. Let?s throw them together and see if we can?t come up with a gimmick match." Actually, the way it started, and I don?t know who in the hell books this crap, they were doing the TV show at some restaurant. I remember going up there and doing a few spots with Justin. Him mouthing off and making fun of me and all this stuff. I started to grab a fork like I was going to stab him. And at the end of that taping, Rocco said "Justin vs. Dexter. Hardcore vs. NonHardcore." And I had to go with it. At the time, he was the boss.

CM: Any memories of your series with the Outcast for the Light Heavywweight Title?

DH: As far as I?m concerned, my series still goes with Kenny. Kenny is one of the guys around here that, if he was in shape, he would probably be the first to go (to the WWE). He reminds me of Brent (Albright) in a lot of ways. He knows his wrestling. He?s technically sound. Our series is still ongoing because we just wrestled each other at the IZW show in Lawton. Every time me & Kenny step in the ring, we try to do something different. We try to be entertaining, whether it be funny haha or entertaining in a heel way. I&autem usually the heel when we do that. Kenny?s the bumping machine. He can make anybody look good.

CM: In November, you had another Fans Bring the Weapons Match against Terry Montana for the OCW Hardcore Title. Is it true that John Crow told you that no matter what I brought to that show, you were to juice from it?

DH: No, I don?t recall that. What I do recall from that match is, I can safely say that (knocks on wood) I have never broken a body part in this business. Me & Terry had an understanding. I was a little guy. He?s a lot bigger than me. I could take it. I tried to dish it out as much he gave it and vice-versa. That was fun. I think my mom was there that night. Every time I bleed, she kind of turns her head. Wrestling Terry is fun. It?s always something new. You never know what to expect. Anytime I get to wrestle Terry, it?s fun. A lot of people won?t wrestle him because he?s stiff. I ain?t got no problem with that.

CM: Any memories of your series of matches with Beau & Butch Dalton?

DH: Not a lot. I believe it was when we turned them face. Butch is a great wrestler. I give props to anybody over 250 pounds who can get up on the top rope and do a moonsault. Any big man who can get on the top rope and fly like that, you?ve gotta give props to. He?s a good wrestler. Beau?s a good entertainer. Not the best wrestler. He?ll be the first to admit that. Very entertaining. And that?s when me & Luc were just getting acquainted with each other and getting the whole "Canada!!!" thing going. It was fun. It was entertaining.

CM: Around this time was when the first meetings to form SRPW happened. Were you at that first meeting?

DH: Yes.

CM: Were you definitely wanting out of OCW or were you just wanting to see what the options were?

DH: A little bit of both and that may seems kind of strange to say that. Yes, I was frustrated with what was going on. At the same time, you see one thing happen and you see the consequences of that happening and then you see that again?history has a tendency to repeat itself and that so rings true in what we do. I wanted a change. I wanted something different. In the end, all the infighting that goes on with this company and that company and the company I work for?I want wrestling to be around here 10 years from now. Everyone that?s coming along now is greener than dogshit and if they really truly honestly enjoy this business, I want to see them wrestling around here in 10 years. I?m afraid that, at the rate it?s going, it won?t be here in 10 years. And I hope that doesn?t happen.

CM: December 8, 2002. There are 2 things I want to ask you about that night. First, there was a match between you, Terry & Splash Jackson for the OCW Hardcore Title.

DH: That was the match where I lost it to Splash. That was different because it?s hard to do 3-ways sometimes. You gotta have the right people in the mix to accomplish that. From what I remember, things went pretty smooth in that match. It was entertaining. There?s not much you can do with hardcore matches. ECW, they had great minds behind that stuff. They were really inventive with what they were doing. They were probably the first to invent spots to go along with hardcore wrestling. That was fun. It was a good match.

CM: Then later that night was one of the most infamous events in Oklahoma wrestling history: The Oklahoma stampede which didn?t have an ending. What are your impressions and memories of that event?

DH: Story as I?ve told everybody else. I?ll tell you the same thing. There?s always disagreements and I guess that night the disagreement was between Rocco and Brandon Groom. Brandon?s a friend of mine so I trust what he says as much as what I saw. Never had the opportunity to ask Rocco face to face, so I don?t know his side. I?m forming an opinion based on things I heard and saw. Battle Royal starts. I grab my gear and take it out to the vehicle. I?m out there. I believe I was talking on the phone. I come back in maybe 10 minutes later. It?s getting towards the end of it. Brandon is in the ring, yelling at Rocco. Then Brandon and Summer (Rain) are being escorted out. Then I hear that Brandon didn?t want to put this guy over or Rocco changed the finish?whatever. I honestly don?t have an opinion because I wasn?t there to see it.

CM: You were on the first SRPW card in beginning of January, 2003. You were in a match with Big Daddy Moore and became the first SRPW Hardcore Champion. Do you have any memories of that match?

DH: Yeah, that was fun. Anytime you wrestle Big Daddy, it?s fun. No matter how many times you wrestle somebody, you?ve gotta do something different. Whether we?re in front of you one night and your neighbour the next night, I always want to do something different. That?s challenging. That?s what a lot of people should strive to do. That?s like Jim Cornette saying that people should go back to wrestling like the carnival days. Get the entertainment value of it. Me & Big Daddy were always of the philosophy that you should do something like that everytime. Let?s wing it. Let?s be entertaining. Let?s do what we have to do to make people happy. And that?s what we did. We never really talked about anything. We just went in there, had fun and it looked like what it looked like when we came out.

CM: And at the time you were working for them, you were still closing out a programme for OCW. You did a couple of matches for them. Any memories of working with Sonny C?

DH: I thought at the time and I still think that with the right work and training, Sonny will be one of the better workers around here. I said that from the beginning, just like I said for Justin and Kenny. Both of those guys are good wrestlers. Sonny?s good. He was green at the time, but he listened well. He?s a good guy.

CM: You had your last match for OCW against Grenade and then you left. Was it a surprise that you were leaving or had you pretty much made your intentions known?

DH: No, I told them what I was going to do and John Crow knew why. Several people tried to stop that, saying different things. At that point, I trusted no one but myself. I went with what I felt was right and what I felt was right was what other people felt was right too, I guess. Step away and try to build something on our own.

CM: Were you surprised to hear that, about 2 months later, OCW would shut down?

DH: No. I wasn?t surprised. John had a pretty good idea what he wanted to do. He just didn?t have the right people in place to get that done. It may have been different if there had been other people involved. Was I surprised that it happened? No. Was I surprised that it happened that quickly? Yes.

CM: What were your feeling when you heard that, by shutting down, it left the benefit show that was for Keebler?s school up in the air?

DH: I thought that was kind of crappy. The least he could have done was have that last show and then call it quits. He didn?t. Sarah (Harmon, SRPW owner) stepped in and said we?ll do it. From what I recall, that?s the last time that SRPW & TPW or OCW worked together. And that was fun. Crampy locker room, but it was fun. I think that?s why (TPW) doesn?t do shows in the gym (at Owen Park) anymore. Too many fat people in the locker room. (laughs)

CM: Memories of your match against the Tiger Kid that night.

DH: I?ve always enjoyed Treach. He?s one of those guys that introduced me to a lot of people with respect value on their name. Like a father figure. I consider Zane & James and Chuck like brothers. Treach is more like a daddy. Took care of me like that. I met a lot of famous people through Treach, so that was pretty cool. He took care of me on the road. Treach is retired now, coaching his kid?s baseball. But he?ll always be one of my favourite workers around here.

CM: You and Luc were still keeping Northern Threat together in SRPW. You were also going down to MSWA. Any memories of your feud down there with the Forsaken?

DH: That was entertaining. Me & Luc figured that, in our own minds, we were a team that could go out there and work with anybody. In my opinion, we were probably one of the top tag teams that have gotten together in this area. With the exception of Generation X; maybe Eagle & Bolo, they were a good tag team back in the day; so were Renegade & Bernard Funk, the old Outlaws gimmick there; Body Count, gotta give my props. They?re ranked right up there. Probably Generation X and Body Count are 1 & 2. Followed by me & Luc and Halo & (Michael) Faith. We all gelled well together. We were all friends. When you?re friends with somebody, that makes it much easier. Those matches were fun. Very entertaining. We all compromised and got along well. We just went out there and did our thing and things worked out. Half the time we didn?t really know what we wanted to do week to week. But one thing led to another and we had 5, 6, 7, 8 matches. All of them, in my opinion, were pretty good. Actually, one that we had?I believe it?s the one where we won the (MSWA Tag Team) belts, the rope broke. I remember it being a powerbomb spot from the top. I sunset-flipped over Halo and that big bastard was on the second rope and before I could slam him down the rope broke and he came splashing down on my chest. We beat the crap out of them with the ring rope. That was fun. That was one of my favourite matches.

CM: Were the SRPW Fun Fair shows the first Fun Fair shows you worked or had you worked them for OCW?

DH: No, I was supposed to work them for OCW. Some things happened. I didn?t get chance to.

CM: What are your opinions of the Fun Fair shows? Do you like working them?

DH: It?s different, y?know? Different atmosphere. More people out there and maybe if I had just been starting out it would have been a little different. Might have been a little scary, freaky. I thought it was entertaining. It was more laid back then going to a spot show or a show you know you?re going to make a pay day on. It was fun. People out there didn?t know you and that was the challenging part. You had to make those people know who you were in a quick amount of time. It was fun.

CM: Do you think SRPW made a mistake by not establishing a home base first and then running around and doing the shows?

DH: Yes, I do.

CM: Any memories of your TLC SRPW Hardcore Title match with Devon Monroe in Enid?

DH: Yeah, there were a lot of things that went wrong with that match. There?s a lot of things that could have been done different. There?s a lot of things that weren?t done that should have been done. But again, you make mistakes and you learn and you move on. Devon?s a good wrestler when he wants to be. A ladder match is a different kind of hardcore match because you have to come up with something the people hadn?t seen. The original ladder match between Shawn Michaels & Razor Ramon (Scott Hall) is probably the best ladder match I?ve ever seen. The timing was there. No matter how many matches that ECW did with a ladder or WWE ever did after that with a ladder, the original is the best and everybody after that is trying to copy it.

CM: Probably one of the 2 highest profile matches for you in your career was the cage match with Big Daddy Moore for the SRPW Hardcore Title. Any memories of that, especially since you ran no shows to build up the match itself?

DH: Yeah, that was something to try and draw people in. I was a pretty good heel there in Bristow. I got over pretty well there. Big Daddy is pretty much over wherever he goes. It doesn?t matter whether they know him or not, and surprisingly a lot of people do know him. Big Daddy was unsure at first whether he wanted to do it or not. It was my idea to do it. Not because I wanted to throw myself into the main event. Not because I wanted to become a legend and have a cage match. 2 friends going in there and you know you?re going to have a good match with someone you like and respect. We thought it was going to be easy until we actually stepped in there and then it?s like being a dog. You get thrown into an environment where you?re surrounded by steel. It?s a little intimidating. Anybody who has ever stepped into a cage will admit it?s rough. You?re gonna come out with scars. You?re gonna come out with bruises. Once we got in there and once we got going, we knew everything would be good. We just went in there and did our thing. They tried to convince me not to jump off the top of the cage because they were unsure if the thing would hold up. I knew in my mind there was no way in hell I was going to get away with that. Mick Foley said it in his book and there were all those vignettes on the WWE. You can?t get away with a cage match without diving off the top of the thing. (Jimmy) Snuka did it. He did it. Shawn Michaels did it. I wanted to say that I jumped. That was a little intimidating.

CM: When SRPW moved here to Tulsa out at Mickey?s, you were running on Saturday evenings. Rocco was running TPW in the afternoon. Was there any sense of tension amongst the people in SRPW that you were invading a hostile area or was there a thought of taking over and push them out?

DH: No. Again, it goes back to "Should we have had a home base before we started doing spot shows?" Yes, we should have and if Mickey?s had come along a lot sooner it would have been a lot better. Things might have been able to be worked out a lot easier. Obviously things didn?t work out there with Mickey?s Bowling Centre. As we all know now, Mickey?s rolling. He?s on fire! It would have been fun if we could have stayed there. I think that might have been a place that could have been another OPW. I don?t want to compare it to that because it shouldn?t be compared to that. Any time something new comes along, everybody tries to compare it to something. Something that?s happened in the past. "Is it gonna be as good as this?" And I try not to look at it like that. I try to look at it like we were doing our own thing. We were trying to establish ourselves there and things didn?t work out and I wish they would have because that would have been a great place to stay and run. My opinion: if we?d had another couple more months in there, things could have been built up and we?d still be there.

CM: Any memories of the Handicap match against X-Cal where you won the SRPW Tag Team Titles?

DH: Yeah. Tarantula was supposed to be involved in that match. He didn?t end up making it. I believe his kid got sick that night or something. If T would have been there, I think it would have been a 5-star tag team match. That might even have been match of the year. X-Cal, that was one of my first times getting in the ring and working with him. In my opinion now, he?s a lot better than he was then. That was fun. I wish T could have been there so we could have pulled off the tag team match. But it was something last minute. It looked good. X-Cal held his own in that match.

CM: Whose idea was it to break up Northern Threat? You only held the belts for a week. You dropped them to Ian & Renegade. Did you feel the gimmick had come to an end?

DH: No, we didn?t feel the gimmick had come to an end. We felt that, at the time, we might be better served to do a programme with each other. And again, that was the sole purpose of creating SRPW. To try and do things differently, whether it be different ideas or different matches. Try to do something different. Something that hadn?t been done. Other people?s opinions involved in things. And me & Luc figured what better time than the present to start something between me & him? And eventually, that?s gotta come full circle.

CM: Any memories of the "I Quit" match against Ian St. James?

DH: Yeah, it was weird because the roles were kind of reversed. James hadn?t been doing it in a while and it?s like riding a bicycle. You don?t forget. In my opinion, he didn?t lose a step at all. My memories of that were that I believe I called just about everything we did. He was the same old teacher. Same old James. He was the same person, same wrestler. It was fun. It was his first real match back. I think he was a little nervous, but I think it turned out a little better than we thought.

CM: 2004 Fun Fairs. You had a couple of matches against Dirty Harry Sanchez.

DH: If he were more motivated, Dirty Harry would be a lot further than he is right now. He?s got a lot of potential and let?s just hope we can bring some of that out in him.

CM: How surprised were you with the arrest rib that Frank did on you?

DH: I didn?t see it coming first of all and it actually shocked me because, at the time, I had 2 parking tickets out I guess Frank knew. It?s kind of like having a girlfriend. You got a girlfriend that you can piss off easy, you know how to press her buttons, you?re going to do it when you?re mad at her. I had played a rib on Frank the week before. I had put some hot sauce in his jelly or something like that at the Waffle House. I believe it was after the match with me & DHS. I walked out of that and the guy put me in handcuffs and it didn?t click. I didn?t see his security patch. He put me in cuffs, walked me around the corner and there?s Frank with a big smile on his face. "You Bastard. You got me!"

CM: Memories of the Fun Fair programme that reformed the Gen X Crew against the Fraternity of Sin.

DH: That was cool. We weren?t for sure that we really wanted to do that or not. X-Cal, being the big time mark that he is, he was actually telling me the other day that he just turned 21 and he said "Man, I watched you wrestle when I was 16 years old." I?m not even 26 yet and that made me feel old. That was fun. We convinced James to do it. We went out there and it was a nice little 6-man. I think that was the night that I whacked Cade (Sydal) in the jaw with my foot. That was fun. Again, something at the last minute that was thrown together. It was kinda cool.

CM: Was there ever any attempt to get ahold of Zane to bring him up for that?

DH: Yeah, there was. Zane?s married and I thought I had heard something about his wife being pregnant. I haven?t talked to Zane in a while. That doesn?t mean we?re not good friends. If I were to go down there, I?m sure I could get ahold of him like that. As far as I know, he?s got a great job. He?s semi-retired. He?s living the good life. He?s got family and that??s what?s important.

CM: Also in those Fun Fairs, you were involved with C. G. Mullins? first match. You and him against Luc. Any memories?

DH: I thought C. G., for what the match was, I thought he did a pretty decent job of it. It was his first match. I think it was at the last show of the last of the 2 weeks. It was a free show. No license required. "Let?s put C. G. in there and see what he?s got." C. G., he?s a big old boy. He?s not even 21 yet. Not even 20. I think, like wine, with age it can only get better. That??s my opinion on C. G. I wouldn?t be surprised if, 3 or 4 years from now, he?s one of the better workers here.

CM: You had a series of matches in SRPW with Kenny Campbell. How, if at all, did they differ from the series you had with him in OCW?

DH: Actually there?s more to that series than those two. We did OCW. We did SRPW. We did Brandon Bishop?s ACW. I?ll just leave it at this. Me & Kenny, any time we?ve gone in there, whether it be Tulsa one night, Texas the next night, we?ve always tried to do something different. We?ve always had fun with what we?re doing. Kenny?s a bumping machine. Those matches differed just like all of our matches differ because everytime we went in there, we did something different. We did something new. Me and Kenny are kind of like that in that we pay attention to things to see what people want. If people have been given THIS early in the night, then me and Kenny will turn around and give them THAT. If they got some ha-ha early in the night, they may be wanting some wrestling. Vice-Versa. If they got wrestling, we?ll go out there and give them some ha-ha. Nothing but good things about Kenny.

CM: You had a face-vs.-face match for the SRPW Title vs. Brandon Groom over in the Tulsa Boys & Girls Club. Any memories of that?

DH: That was actually thrown together. There were some people there from Kansas who were doing a car show or some kind of expo out there where they used to Daryl Starbird in Witchita. And these guys came down and they heard "WWE" so they wanted to put us together to see how we worked. That led to us doing a show up there too.

CM: Was it your idea to put over (SRPW photographer) Steveco for the SRPW Hardcore Title?

DH: No, and I don?t remember whose idea that was, but I think that whole thing was like a clusterfuck. No, that wasn?t my idea.

CM: How about your series with Cade for the SRPW Light Heavyweight Title?

DH: The series with Cade was good. He was the first person to knock me out in the wrestling business. I gotta give him props for that. He?s a kid who?s willing to do anything different. Anything that hasn?t been done. I?ve of the mentality that, if someone?s coming up with an idea and they?re tweaking it a little, let?s try to come up with something original. And that?s what Cade?s good at. He wants to come up with original stuff. Things that hadn?t been done yet. And I always respect that. It?s kind of like Rob Van Dam. Anytime he steps in the ring, he always tries to do something a little bit different, something that you haven?t seen. I like guys like that.

CM: How were you contacted to start with NWA-Oklahoma (now NWA-Universal)?

DH: It was through Rick Vyper. He was telling me this guy from Pennsylvania was coming down here. He was a concert promoter. Turned out to be Chris Fox. Through Vyper, I got ahold of Chris. He asked me if I wanted to come wrestle. I guess Chris saw talent in me and wanted me to be his champ. He put the belt on me. Things didn?t work out. I wanted to stay with what I thought I had helped build in the last 4 years with SRPW. I committed to that. Chris is not running on a regular basis and we are. Consistency had another thing to do with it. I?m not gonna say anything bad about Chris. He?s got a lot of personal problems. Sometimes his work, and it shouldn?t be any other way, consumes what he?s trying to do with wrestling. Maybe he just doesn?t devote enough time like he should to wrestling. Again, that?s not my opinion. He?s not a bad guy. Things just work different on the east coast then they do here in the south.

CM: Were you happy with the gauntlet match where you won the NWA Oklahoma X Division Title?

DH: Yeah, I was happy with it. The way that was booked was on me. I was asked my opinion on what we should do and they said who was going over. I picked who the final person was going to be. I wanted it to be someone I?d worked with before and that I knew I could get something good out of and that was X-Cal. That was a good little gauntlet match. Everyone did pretty good in that.

CM: What was the reaction in the SRPW locker room when you initially decided you were going to leave SRPW and go work for NWA-OK?

DH: They thought it had something to do with money, which it really didn?t. I was offered a chance to work with guys like Shark Boy and Jerrelle Clark and and Michael Shane (Matt Bentley), which never accumulated, but there was that chance. I wanted to take that chance. That was something I felt I needed. I keep in touch on a monthly or bi-monthly basis with Tommy Dreamer. He gets tapes every other month. There?s a lot of guys from around here that are, obviously, on those tapes. I felt that Iacuted done everyone around here and I felt I needed something different. He was there to offer that different.

CM: When NWA-OK folded temporarily, before it relaunched as NWA-Universal and you were headed back to SRPW, was there a concern that they would not take you back?

DH: Yes there was.

CM: Did you think you might have to leave the state or did you try to approach TPW or think about heading down to Oklahoma City?

DH: No, I never really thought about that. I?ve been told by people that work down there in Oklahoma City that I have a place to work down there for as long as I want. So that?s kind of set in stone down there. I was a little reticent about how they would take me back, but again, you?re friends with somebody and a lot of that had nothing to do with the wrestling side of it. It was more personal. It was ironed out and I think I earned my trust back.

CM: Memories of the match in November, 2004, where you defeated Cade for the SRPW Light Heavyweight Title.

DH: Again, that was a standard match with Cade. He?s like Kenny. We?ve wrestled many times here and in Oklahoma City and down in Brandon Bishop?s ACW. Cade?s one of those that, in my opinion, he?s got the Jeff Jarrett syndrome. You put him with right person, he?ll have a good match. You put him with the wrong person, it?ll be a so-so match. Every time Cade & I have stepped in the ring, we?ve had decent matches.

CM: Any thoughts on the team that was formed and built pretty heavily at the 2005 Fun Fairs with you & Mitch Carter?

DH: I thought that could have been something. I think me & Mitch had pretty good timing together. Just so happens that they wanted to put me with Bobby Dalton. I brought Bobby into the wrestling business. I?ve known him since damn near high school. They were gonna do a tag tournament after that and I really thought me & Mitch were gonna go in there and get to the end, or at least close, and establish ourselves like that or a part-time tag team, but they decided to go with Bob and that?s cool. I hope Bob is one of those who is still around here 10 years from now and is still performing. Because all the guys that are around here now are green, but they have so much potential. Around here, the wrestlers are a little more athletic then they were when I started. Mitch is another decent worker who?s got a lot of potential if he decides to really buckle down and take this seriously. Some guys around here are really suited for the WWE. Some guys are suited for TNA, God willing they stay in business. That comes with experience and comes with time and you?ve also got to travel and traveling gets you your experience and time.

CM: So the programme that you ran with Bobby was never planned for you & Mitch? Because I know that Mitch took time off because of his brother?s death.

DH: No, that was never planned for me & Mitch. The only thing that I do know was planned for me and Mitch was to eventually start tagging together. But then they decided they were going to put me with Bob and they were going to do something else with Mitch. All that kind of led to Mitch turning heel. That?s where we?re at now.

CM: The other high-profile match for you occurred earlier this year. The Fatal 4-Way Ladder Match for the SRPW Light Heavyweight Title. Any memories of that?

DH: That was a lot different. You know, I said earlier that it?s hard to do a 3-way unless you?ve got the right people in there doing it. It?s kind of hard when you?ve got so many gimmicks in there along with so many people. You?ve gotta climb up the ladder to accomplish the finish. There were things in that match that should have been done, but they weren?t. Overall, I was pleased with it. We got what we wanted from it. Everybody did a good job. It?s hard when you?re doing it with four people. It?s easier when you?re doing it as a singles. That was a challenge, so I figured why not? Anything new, I?m up to it.

CM: Whose idea was it to turn the Light Heavyweight Title into the X Division Title? Did you have a say in that?

DH: Yeah, because light heavyweight is classification. In my opinion, I don?t think it should be the "Heavyweight Title". It should be the "Company?s championship". It?s classification. You say "Heavyweight Title", I?m not a heavyweight. I?m visibly not a heavyweight, so why should I be "heavyweight champion"? Now I could be "SRPW Champion", but unless I get lucky and get that victory, there?s no way. That would never be believable. In my opinion, light heavyweight is classification. That was my idea. Change it to X Division or X Title. We weren?t trying to copy off the NWA. We just wanted to get rid of that classification.

CM: Amy memories of the match in February where you dropped the X Division Title to Bernard Funk?

DH: Bernie was booking and I don?t know why but he felt the need to go over. I thought that made me look weak and I still do. I thought that made me look weak. I thought that made the belt look weak. After me going out, saying "I don?t care how big they are" and all that and then losing it a week later, it just killed my heat and the heat the belt got on it trying to declassify it like that and make it something different. It was a little quick.

CM: Any thoughts on the matches that you and Leather had against Luc & Lily McKenzie?

DH: Yeah, at the Fun Fair. Those were entertaining matches. I wish there was more competition for the girls around here. There are a few more surprises that are now being put into effect. We?re trying to rectify that. We?ve got a good teacher now working with the girls. We??re in talks with other girls to come wrestle. Those matches were entertaining and like I said, when you?re at the Fun Fair, it?s laid back. No worries. If you go out there and fuck up, you just keep going and not worry about things. And that?s the way it was. Any Fun Fair match, whether I was involved with it or not, I just told everyone to go out there and have fun. Don?t worry about messing up, just go out there and do your thing and it?ll be a lot more fun than having to worry about "Oh, I messed that up" or "That didn?t go right". Those are the type of shows where you go out there and have fun. Kids are probably the biggest reason the wrestling business is still alive today, because kids bring their parents and parents bring their dollars. It?s entertaining. Fun Fairs always are.

CM: Were you happy with the way the tag team tournament went, leading up to the programme between you and Bobby?

DH: Are you asking me if I was happy with the tag team tournament?

CM: We can start there.

DH: I was happy with the concept of it. When the Outlaws eventually went to the NWA, that kind of ruined things. Made it a little wishy-washy, but I liked the concept coming out of the tag team tournament. What we did with me & Bob was a slow build and there was actually a swerve involved in it. So again, that was something different. A lot of people thought that me & Bob were about to go fisticuffs and take it to each other and one of us would put the other out. Didn?t happen that way. We put the swerve in there. Again, it?s something that you probably expect to see. They didn?t expect to see that and I think if it had been done with a little more build up...I think I wanted to do that to help Bob out. Make him a better worker. We really haven?t done anything since we?ve done that swerve. We?ll see. I wish Bob and Kenny, all those guys that just started, I hope that in 3 or 4 years they?re still around. I hope they?re where I?m at, where Luc?s at, where Rocco?s been, where Jimmy Kane?s been, where they?re having fun without worrying about any of the BS.

CM: Given the way the programme was laid out and the things I was told about where it was headed to, were you surprised that the fans would not let you turn heel?

DH: Yes, I was and in my opinion, it?s like Stone Cold syndrome. If you?re a good heel and you can sell and make other people look good, after a while the fans have no choice but to start to recognize that, start respecting that, start cheering you. Yeah, I was a little shocked, but you?ve gotta go with what the fans want most of the time and if the fans don?t want something, they?re gonna let you know it, whether it?s 75 or 100 fans or 75,000 fans, they?re gonna let you know what they want. And if they don?t get what they want, then they?re gonna really let you know how they feel, y?know? And right out of the gate, they showed us that it couldn?t happen.

CM: When did the idea to put back together Northern Threat come around?

DH: We wanted to help other guys out. It was actually Luc?s idea. He asked one night if we wanted to do it and if it?s done right, great. Obviously it wasn?t done right because now we?ve got a little beef with each other. Me & Luc always want to keep things interesting whether it?s in matches with each other or?It makes you think. Me & Luc haven?t worked together a lot aside from tagging. We haven?t wrestled a lot. So after a while, we thought we might be able to create some chemistry here, create some entertainment. And that?s all that me & Luc ever wanted to do as a tag team or wrestling each other, we just wanted to be entertaining and we gelled with that. He?s one of the few people that we can just go out there?he?s like Kenny. We just go out there and do anything we want and feel comfortable knowing that we did a good job.

CM: Moving outside of SRPW now, I believe I read on Tom Jones? website that you gave his son Cody his first match?

DH: Actually, his first match as a licensed wrestler. His first match was about a year before that at a Cinco de Mayo show. That was back down there in Oklahoma City when we were doing things with Halo & Faith and John O?Malley and Chris Matthews. We were doing things with those guys. Cody is one of those people, he?s like X-Cal and Cade. He wants to do new things. He wants to be a little daredevil. I think with the right seasoning and a few years under his belt, he?s gonna be one of the better workers around here too. There?s a lot of guys right now that, 3 or 4 years from now, when they get out and they travel and they learn here and they learn there and they pick things up here and they pick things up there and they get that experience they need, then they can become that wrestler that I can see them being in 5 years.

CM: Aside from the Nothern Threat/Forsaken series, was there any other high profile series that you were involved with in MSWA?

DH: No. Pretty much just going down there to MSWA was just something I enjoyed doing. I don?t care who I wrestle. There?s only one person who I?ve never wrestled that I?ve always begged to wrestle when I?ve gone down there and that?s Tom Jones. Maybe one of these days I will before he decides he?s not gonna do it anymore. He still gets up there and trains with guys. Basically when I go down there to MSWA, it doesn?t matter if it?s Faith & Halo or Ryan Davidson or anybody like that, I go down there to have fun.

CM: Let?s go down to Texas and talk about ACW. I understand you were the longest reigning ACW Cruiserweight Champion.

DH: I want to say maybe 5 months. I could be embellishing that a little bit.

CM: Who did you have a good series of matches with down there?

DH: That would come down to Kenny. Kenny was the one who dropped the belt to me. We had a pretty good 3 match series down there. Every match was different. There wasn?t one thing, looking back on the tapes of those matches, that was the same on any of those matches. Li?l Joe. He?s?I want to say the right word here because I don?t want to piss him off and have him come and kill me or something?he?s mentally challenged. But he doesn?t let that hold him back. In my opinion, with seasoning, he will be the best light heavyweight around this area. We?ll say 3 years from now, Li?l Joe will be on top. I think in that 5 months, Kenny & Li?l Joe and I did nothing but wrestle each other. I think Cade was mixed in there too.

CM: You had a cage match against Luc Lapointe in the Cage Wars.

DH: That was nuts! That was the second cage match I?ve ever had. Luc wants to claim that he was involved in the cage match between me and Big Daddy. He just went in there and took a cage bump and flopped out like a fish. The thing that I can really remember most, that really stands out in that match in that show was usually your cage doors open out. This one didn?t. It opened out, but it was attached at the top so that it flew open instead of opening like a door would. I remember telling them "Don?t lock the cage! Do NOT lock it!" Halfway through that thing, Luc looked over and said "The cage is locked." Great. How are we gonna do this? Well, one thing led to another and we were coming to the finish and it was escape the cage, pinfall or submission. I sure as hell didn?t escape it. One good punch from Luc and I went flying backwards, through the second rope, out the cage door. Right there by the ring, there was a platform about 3 feet wide with stairs going down. I went flying out backwards out of that thing, hit my head on the back of that ramp and then flopped like a fish on the hardwood floor. Bloody as all hell. It was fun for everyone. When you do a night full of cage matches, after the first 2 or 3?thank God we were the 3rd one because after that it just killed the rest of them. That was fun. If I could judge either one of the ones that I did, the best one was the one with me & Big Daddy. The most fun was me & Luc.

CM: There was a feud with you and Steveo.

DH: Yeah. Steveo was a cocky little DJ who gets involved in other people?s shouts and things like that. It was kind of a shoot that turned into a work. I made the comment one night, "God, Steveo steals everybody?s heat." I called him the Mean Gene Okerlund of ACW. He tries to be involved and one night I asked (ACW owner Brandon) Bishop if I could go out there and talk crap to him and I did and it got over and Bishop asked if we wanted to work towards putting a match together and we did. Needless to say, it wasn?t much of a match. Steveo did his part. He?s a great actor. Great radio personality. He did a great job and it ended up turning into a hair-vs.-hair match, which he won. He went to go shave my head and I was gonna take it like a man and I got down on my hands and knees. He started to shave and I gave him a low blow and got the hell out of Dodge. Ran all the way back to Oklahoma with SRPW & ACW guys running after me.

CM: When did you first make contact with the WWE?

DH: Me and Brandon Groom and his wife, Summer, we went down to Austin, Texas to?I believe it was TASW. Texas All-Star Wrestling. I could be wrong about that. Dr. Tom Prichard was running a little camp. A little mini-camp. What they do with those camps is they have a whole class of about 20 guys. You get in there, they see how you bump. They give you certain drills and things like that to do and out of that class, the ones who shined were Russell Simpson, who is now Psycho Simpson who is now in OVW; Brandon and me. And there were maybe a couple of other guys who stood out down there. After that, Prichard said to keep in contact with him. And I was really reluctant after that because I wasn?t sure what my chances were. But I ended up talking to him and making good friends and after a while I sent him a few video tapes and ended up getting my first paid booking with the WWE. Didn?t work on the show, but of course, if you get booked, you get paid, you eat a great lunch and dinner and you have lots of fun. Call it a contact or not, I made friends with the production crew while I was there and one of the cameramen, as far as I know, keeps track of the SRPW website. His name is Bubba. He?s usually the guy who shoots all the roaming vignettes, stuff like that. That was fun. That was a learning experience. Nobody is going to truly understand what the business is like until they get to go back there and experience that. I hope everybody gets to go back there and experience that at least once.

CM: Did you get to meet Vince (McMahon)?

DH: I met Vince. You go back there, it?s just like working in an office, you?re going to see everybody at least once a day. You walk by Vince 3 or 4 times. You walk by Triple H 3 or 4 times. You name it, if they work for WWE, you?re going to see them.

CM: Did you get to speak to him or was it just a passing greeting?

DH: Just a passing "Hello, how are you doing? What?s your name?" "Dexter" "Hi, I?m Vince." Everybody hears internet rumours and hears "This guy is an ass" and "This guy did this." Whatever. Some of that may be true and some of it may not. It?s not for me to say what is true and what?s not true. What is for me to say is the opinion that I formed of everybody. Yes, everybody has bad days. Everybody can wake up cranky and be sick one day and not feel good. In my opinion, those guys are just like me. Just like you. They have a job that they?re there to do 8 hours a day. Sometimes 10, 12 hours a day. And then they travel on to the next town and they don?t get to go home every night. Everybody that was there is nice. Everybody that I met, that I got to sit and talk to, not for more than just a 5 minute conversation, was really cool.

CM: People who know you, and if they don?t know you, if they happen to see you and you?re wearing a short-sleeve shirt, can see the ICP tattoo on your forearm. Did you ever try to get yourself booked on a JCW (Juggalo Championshit Wrestling) show?

DH: I had a friend of mine who I tried to get in the business during one of the Fun Fairs who?s a big ICP mark. He?s got every ICP album there is, posters, all this crap. He kept trying to tell me "You should try to get on a JCW show. Try to get on there. Try to get on there." He actually got me hooked up with them, got me phone numbers, contact information. I sent a tape into them, the only problem was I sent the tape in too late. I guess every year up there in Michigan they do a convention for a week. They have wrestling throughout that whole week. Throughout that whole week there?s tons of guys coming in and out. They said they had upwards of 50 guys they were using. I just didn?t get on in time. I would have liked to have done that. Most of their guys up there I could work circles around. But I just got in a little too late.

CM: What I want to do now is a little name association where I throw out some names of people in the business, mostly local workers and you tell me the impressions you have of them, good or bad, any interesting stories, whatever you want to throw out there.

DH: OK.

CM: Let?s start with Rocco Valentino.

DH: Not a bad person. To a lot of people, he probably seems like a bad person and I?m sure that some of the people who are reading this are expecting me to say every bad name in the book about him. Conceited: sometimes yes. Egomaniac: sometimes yes. Smart businessman: yes. He knew what it took to keep OPW going and he was making money at it. As far as the wrestling business goes, I have nothing but respect for him. He knows how to run a business. Personally, me and him don?t see eye to eye and we probably never will, but the past is the past and we?ll just leave it like that.

CM: Malice.

DH: Great friend. Probably could have been a better worker, if he?d have applied himself. Great friend. Cool guy to hang out with.

CM: Bull Schmitt.

DH: One of my best friends. Great wrestler. Could have been an even better wrestler, but I can?t knock him for that. He wanted to be with his family. He figured out that family was more important. Big ups to him for that.

CM: Scotty Charisma.

DH: I don?t know Scotty that well. I?ve seen him. He?s got the contacts that I do. He keeps contact with Dreamer and them. He?s a decent worker. That?s all I?ve got to say about him. Good guy. Nice guy.

CM: Mike Iles.

DH: Nice football fan. I gotta love a football fan. Anytime you get two football fans together, something?s gonna happen. I haven?t really felt his opinions about this and that as far as the wrestling business goes, so I can?t really say that, but nice guy. He?s a football fan.

CM: Adam Thornstowe.

DH: Adam probably pissed a lot of people off around here and rightly so. Friends with me. In my opinion, he came out here to experience something different and he did, just like if one of us went out there, it would be a lot different out there then it is here. Adam came from someplace different. You live a little faster out in Nevada than you do in Oklahoma. Adam?s a good wrestler and hopefully, at the rate things are going, he?ll get hooked up with the WWE and OVW and become and even better wrestler. Good luck to him.

CM: Shark Boy

DH: Hell of a funny guy. Nothing but nice things to say about him. He?s a professional from the word go. I got to go hang out with him the whole day he was here, going out to eat. Nothing but good things to say about Shark Boy.

CM: Tom Jones

DH: I don?t really know Tom personally as much as I know him professionally, but anytimes we?ve been around each other, nothing but good times. And not a bad thing to say about him either.

CM: Brent Albright.

DH: My first impressions of Brent when he first started were that he was an egomaniac. And then I figured out why he was an egomaniac was because he really had a lot of passion for doing this. He honest to God thought that he was the best around here doing what he was doing and it turned out to be true. So you can?t fault him for that. Like Kid Rock says, "It?s not cocky if you can back it up." And by God, I hope Brent hangs on to the WWE for a long time and makes lots and lots of money with them.

CM: Pete Maguire

DH: Pete?s like a car salesman. He?s a businessman. He?ll try to sell you on something. He?s not a bad guy. He?s a friend of mine. I think that the business relationship he was in with Rocco at the time was not wise. There?s a lot of conflict there. Pete?s a nice guy. He?s a businessman. And you?ve got to treat a businessman like a businessman.

CM: Tyler Bateman.

DH: He?s a good wrestler. If he had size on him, if he was bigger, I think he?s got talent. I think most of the guys around here, and I definitely don?t want to classify anyone because if someone has hopes and dreams of getting to the WWE and I say "Well, they?re not going to get any further than this in my opinion." I don?t want to bring anybody down like that. I?ve got high hopes for everybody. If Tyler got some size on him or got into the gym, he?d have no problem getting into the WWE or TNA.

CM: Gary Tool.

DH: One of the best teachers around here. If Gary Tool talks, you should listen to him. He knows what he?s talking about. I?ve been with Gary since the very beginning. He?s another one I traveled with like Zane and James and Jay and all those guys. I?ve got nothing but nice things to say about Gary. And anybody who ever has anything bad to say about Gary, turn the other cheek. Gary?s a good teacher and anyone who?s ever come in contact with him should shut their mouth and open their ears.

CM: Brandon Bishop

DH: Has a good head on his shoulders for promoting. From a booking standpoint, he?s got a lot of outrageous ideas. Some of them are good, some of are good but need to be toned down a little bit. Sometimes he does a little too much. Bishop?s someone that I don?t know personally as much as I do professionally. But you?ve got to respect someone who puts their money on the line and puts their reputation on the line to own a company. Because that?s what you do. You put your money on the line. You put your reputation on the line for everyone to see and you do something wrong, you fuck up, you?re gonna suffer the consequences for it. Not any certain person, but you and your company are gonna suffer the consequences for it. Bishop?s not the smartest guy on the block, but props to him for keeping his company afloat and that?s everybody?s dream. To own their own company, their own wrestling company or their own business or their own house or anything like that. Just like Sarah or Rocco or anyone like that. Big props to them for doing what they?re doing.

CM: Sarah Harmon.

DH: She?ll be the first person to admit it to you. She doesn?t know shit about wrestling. Doesn?t even watch it on TV at all. I think that?s different, to have a woman promoter. And to my knowledge, there?s not many at all on the indy level. She?s a good friend, never done anything to do me wrong, although I?ve done things to piss her off. Things have been put in the past. The past is the past. Good friends.

CM: I?ve heard you called everything from a "hothead" to a "cocky bastard" to a "cancer in the locker room". Do you think that at any time in your career it was deserved?

DH: Anytime anyone gives an opinion of anyone else, it?s got to be deserved. I wouldn?t just come out and say "CM Burnham sucks." I wouldn?t come out and say that for no reason. I?d have to have a reason to say that and if people said that, they obviously had a reason to say that. Just because someone says something doesn?t mean that it?s true. Opinions are like farts. They happen 3 or 4 times a day every day. Everybody?s got a freakin? opinion. Sometimes they should keep those opinions to themselves, sometimes they should open up those opinions, but I don?t get frustrated. I don?t get upset. I?ve got opinions of other people. They may not be right, but they?re my opinions and I?m entitled to them.

CM: What do you see your spot being in SRPW, both in the ring and behind the scenes?

DH: Actually, it?s going to be the same inside the ring as well as outside. My spot now is to be a teacher. To help guys improve their game. Inside of the ring, it?s to hopefully inspire the guys to step it up a notch. No matter if it?s 15 people or 1500 people, I?ve tried to out there and give 100% every time. Hopefully I can rub some of that off. No matter who has anything bad to say about me, hopefully one of the things they can say about me is that every time I stepped in the ring, I become a good worker. If that?s all they say and then turn around when I get out of the ring and say "God, that guy has a shitty attitude!", that?s fine. My whole role in the thing has come full circle to what I originally wanted it to be. A booker, a teacher, an agent, whatever you want to call it. I want to help out other guys. I?m better with the here and now. I know what we can do now to get us there. I don?t have an eye for coming up with characters and things like that. My role is to be a teacher and teach what I know and that is wrestling and psychology and that?s my role.

CM: Is there anything that you?d like to say to the fans that have supported you?

DH: I hope I can do this for as long as my body is willing to let me do this. Everybody that has supported me, thank you to all of them. It?s kind of like writing an acceptance speech to an Oscar or something like that. You don?t know what you?re really going to say. Everybody thinks about what they?re gonna do the minute they retire from their job. I?m not like that. I?m going to thank all the thank-you?s and the appreciations like that until the end. People who were there for me and all that, they know who they are. The fans who have cheered for me and want to see me wrestle every week, they know who they are and each time they see me go out there and wrestle and see me give 100%, they know that that?s my thank-you in return.

CM: Well, with that said, we?ll bring this interview to a close. Thank you.

DH: Thank you, Burnham