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Rocco Valentino interviewed by CM Burnham about the Jimmy Kane/Rocco Valentino Cage Match

Posted: Nov 30th 2002 By: oklastaff

C. M. Burnham: I?m here to talk with Rocco about the cage match with Jimmy Kane. When did you get the idea to do a cage match? How did the idea to do a cage match come about?

Rocco Valentino: I was on a roll in the VIP crew. Me and Vinnie [Slater Vain] and Joey Casanova and at that point we were unstoppable. Bolo was kind of involved...

CM: Bolo was in there because he had a match with Brandon [Groom] that night.

RV: Yeah, he kind of fulfilled the enforcer kind of deal. Yeah, cause him and...Bolo would always tag team with either...

CM: Joey

RV: Joey or Vinnie. But mostly Joey. And we were just unstoppable. We had size with Bolo, we had me as the veteran. We had Joey as the light heavyweight. We had Vinnie as just the great technical wrestler. And we were just unstoppable at that point and that?s what was starting to make people mad was when I would get on the mic and put everybody down and that made them mad enough, but then we?d back it up. And then we?d back it up, that made them even more mad. Cause you?re not supposed to be able to do that. And nobody...and that was about the same time that Pete Maguire got excused from professional wrestling as we know it and we were kind of going on and we?re out there wrestling in a match, I can?t remember who I was wrestling at the time but I was out there by myself and in through the side door comes Ian St. James and Jimmy Kane and they come in...they just walk in, just in that side....well, actually it was the back door, but side door of Riverlanes and they take the microphone and wanted to start talking trash and they went so far as to say that....I remember I told them "You?ve got your chance to shut up and leave." And he says "You know you want us to leave just like you fired us just like you got rid of Pete Maguire. Because just like Pete Maguire, we don?t do what you want done." And that?s when it started to expose who really was in charge and who was really starting to, y?know, who was calling the shots. And that?s when he had the microphone and I didn?t and that took away my advantage. And the crowd was...I think the crowd was really stunned. I watched that match not too long ago. The crowd was sitting there going...

CM: We were.

RV: ...this is inside stuff. This is like REAL inside stuff. And so I bailed out of the ring and me and Ian start fighting and we were hooking it. Hooking it hard. And Jimmy Kane then came around and, I think, cleared the locker room.

CM: Yes, they came out. Actually, I think that...

RV: That was the first time ever you saw good and bad...

CM: Yeah.

RV: ...leave the locker room at the same time. First time ever in five years you saw the locker room, good and bad, all come out together to break up the problem those guys were causing. And I think the crowd appreciated that just because they saw a real challenge to the VIP Crew. They were looking for somebody who could shut my mouth. Chief [Red Eagle] couldn?t do it. Big Daddy [Moore] couldn?t do it.

CM: Brandon, [Brian] Lakewood, yeah...

RV: All those guys couldn?t do it. Only guys who could do it were on my team. So, they finally got those guys out the side door and got them to leave. And then, I think it was the next week or the week after, we had a sherrif. I actually paid a sheriff?s deputy to stand at the side door to keep them out. And, of course, they didn?t get in that time. But then some challenges were made. They did some other...Did they run in one more time?

CM: There were some things. You had a match where you defended...you were OPW Heavyweight Champion and you were set up with a match against Splash [Anthony Jackson]. And the match went about 30 seconds before New Genesis came out and hit the ring and you bailed out and you got on your cell phone and started talking to somebody.

RV: I called the police.

CM: Okay. So that was the only contact, prior to the May 31 match, in a singles match between you two. But there was a constant series of run-ins, both on your part, the VIP?s part, and New Genesis? part.

RV: See, they were allowed to come back. They were allowed to come back as a tag team because there was no way i was gonna give them any kind of match because they were nobody at that point. They were gone. They were fired. They came back on thier own unsanctioned and then they were allowed to come back to compete and prove themselves to be worthy of having a match with the VIP Crew.

CM: So as things developed further along between the two teams, between VIP and New Genesis, when did you begin to get the feeling that perhaps extreme measures were going to have to be taken to settle this once and for all? (Rocco passes me a picture of a match between himself and Ian St. James. VIP Crew member Jenna Love is the referee)

RV: Well, this is one of the matches leading up to that time. You can see who the special referee is.

CM: Yeah. Yeah.

RV: See, I had the power at that time, before Lakewood came in as the commissioner. I had a lot more power then. So I could stack matches in my favour. And that?s what I did. So we?re having these fights and I?m wrestling Ian St. James and he was, he defenitely had the upper hand in those matches. But I always had either special referees or Bolo or Jimmy Kane was, I think handcuffed to the ring one time...

CM: Yeah. Yeah.

RV: I mean, half the dressing room was us. So, I remember when I walked out and the curtain shut behind me, you see just a sea of people. That was the most packed if ever was. And I looked at the cage and then that was when it started to sink in, y?know, yeah, this probably could take years off your career. I was thinking to myself, "Man, you?re stepping in...", y?know, at that time I was introduced at 207 or something pounds but really, I weighed 197 at that point. And you?re going up against a guy who is a legit 270. And I was thinking, and to use a cliche, "There?s nowhere to run and nowhere to hide in a cage." Because it wasn?t...the cage was right up against the ring. There?s no climbing under the ring. It?s either get out or get your ass kicked. And someone was getting their ass kicked in that match. And, as it turned out, it was me, but as you look at that cage, it was...the cage was 11? 6" tall. Floor to ceiling. 11? 6". I walked up and I was, like, "Holy...". When I walked up to it, I grabbed it and I?m thinking, "This thing?s gonna give. There?s gonna be some give here". And I grabbed it and it didn?t give. And I was thinking, "Shit! Ok, let me try the other side." And I grabbed it and I?m trying to work here and I?m, like, "What can I do?". OK, that side, it didn?t give. Then I went to the side that had the door on it. I?m thinking, "Well, maybe structurally this one won?t be as sound". Tried it. Nothing gave. And I?m like, "Man alive. What in the hell did I just get myself into with Jimmy Kane?". Y?know, think of all the guys in your life, I mean, just how many guys I?ve wrestled that I would rather be in a cage match with. I mean, you think of who you want to be in a cage match with, it?s not Jimmy Kane. People who know who Jimmy Kane was, or is, that?s just not the guy to do it with. And that?s when I got in there and I was, like...I mean, I wasn?t scared. But I was like, "Man! If I don?t have my "A" game tonight, there?s a pretty good chance I?m gonna get injured." And yeah, I really wanted to win, but I REALLY wanted not to be injured out of this deal. Serious, I did NOT want to get one of those deals where you get carted out. I don?t mind being carried out, that?s one thing. Because you?re spent. But to have to be carted out, because you?re injured, that sucks. So, I stood there, and I got in the ring and I stood there and I was, like "19? X 19? never looked so small". Because if you jump over the top and leave, you can?t leave. There?s no leaving. You can?t go over the 3rd rope and head to the back and get a 10-count. It?s done now. So I remember standing there facing the entryway and Jimmy Kane gets introduced. And I?d never heard anything louder in my whole entire life. The crowd was behind him. Here was a guy that had insulted the fans with Steve Hartley and fans hated him for years. Just couldn?t stand him. And that said to me. "Y?know, you don?t have the home field advantage anymore. Everybody hates you more than they ever hated Jimmy Kane to the point that you?re that big of a prick." And he?s gonna take that out on me because that?s what the fans want to see and when the fans want to see it, generally, that?s what?s gonna happen. Because it motivates. People, y?know...you can?t overemphasise what the home field advantage is. When the crowd gets behind your home team, you may be tired or you may be getting down or getting beat, but when the fans get behind you, it does. It pumps you up. It gets you going, man,you gotta be pumped up. Heck, you watch that match that I had with that sucky guy, Splash, my retirement match. The fans were getting into it. BOOM, "Oh, wait, I can come back. I?m Superman". But it has the opposite effect on the guy they are cheering against. That?s what it did to me. I was, like, "Ohhhh, shit!" I was, like, "What in the heck am I gonna do now?" Because there wasn?t one fan out there for me. So he comes out there and he doesn?t do his usual Jimmy Kane thing. He comes around the ring and stands there and just soaks it in. And so that encourages the fans to do it even longer and even louder. And that?s just beating me down. I was standing there trying to be cool and be tough and I could feel it kind of eating away at me. And he gets in the ring and as soon as he got in the ring, I was thinking, "Y?know what? I could attack him right here from behind". Then I thought, "No, I?m in a cage. I?m just not gonna piss him off right now." You shouldn?t think that way, but I?m like, "Man. I?m just not gonna piss that guy off." Because you get in the cage, in a ring and with a guy as big as Jimmy Kane and as mean as Jimmy Kane and I?m, like, "Maybe he?ll have mercy on me or something." But we hooked it up and had a fight.

CM: So, you said you walked in hoping to escape, whether you won or not, without any injuries. But I know you suffered some injuries because he made you bleed, which you promised he would never be able to do. What else happened to you during that match?

RV: I legit seperated my shoulder. I was out for 3 weeks. I couldn?t...well, it was more than 3 weeks actually. I couldn?t even practice. Couldn?t work out for 3 weeks because he legit seperated my shoulder. When he punched me so hard that I fell out of the cage, I fell out, even though I won the match and as soon as I exited the cage, I won, I was victorious and all was good with the world on my side, except that as soon as I hit the ground, I hit my shoulder, it?s this shoulder right here (points to his left shoulder), and I still can?t do as much when I?m in the gym on this side as I can on my right hand side, which was the opposite at that time. Because, I mean, it seperated my shoulder and I was out, even though I had to come back and do...I didn?t do any matches, but I did interviews. I only did interviews for TV, just to keep my character alive. But I thought it was over because my shoulder was out and there was nothing I could do about it. It was one of those seperations that, the doctor goes, "What do you want me to do?" You couldn?t do anything. It was either operate on it or let it heal. And that?s what that deal was. So I was out.

CM: You also injured your hamstring, I think?

RV: Yeah, right at the very opening, I...he put me in the Tree of Woe and my hamstring just tore. It was like a big cramp that had tore my hamstring right there right in the beginning. But you can?t be 30 seconds into a cage match that people have paid premium dollar to see and that has been hugely advertised and then say, "Hey, sorry. Time out. I gotta go home." That was kind of tough, but the adrenaline started going so much that it?s kind of like that Fight-or-Flight. I had so much adrenaline that one, I mean, even though it hurt, it didn?t bother me so much after the initial tear.

CM: So, having been through the match, with it over, were you pleased? Besides the fact that you won, were you pleased with the way that the match went? Or did you feel you didn?t get enough in on Jimmy?
RV: (Long pause) Sometimes there comes a thing with somebody that you fight forever. Jimmy Kane and I, and we?ve been over this a million times...the thing that I?ve wanted, and that I?ve always wanted to do and the thing that I?ve based my career on is old school. I don?t want to be one of those guys that has to a million high spots to get over. I think there?s a place for high spots. And I think there?s a time for high spots. And I think there?s a time for taking risks and there?s a time not to take risks. But I?ve always said that if you are a big enough star, your charisma, your look and your talent, all you have to do is go out there and tell your story. And what I wanted to do in that cage match...I mean, at that time, that was 2001, you?re talking about the Hardy Boys, the Dudleys, Edge & Christian and all those idiots, look at the crap they were doing just to get the fans to cheer for them in a cage match. And I just looked at that and it made me mad and it made me mad because I used to watch the Sheik in a cage match. You know how many times the Sheik climbed over the top? This was a guy that was having cage matches once a week. How many times do you think that guy climbed over the top of the cage?

CM: Probably zero.

RV: None! That?s right. Y?know why? He didn?t have to. And so, I said, "Y?know, I?m going in there and I?m going to, as Rocco Valentino, I?m going to perform an old school cage match." I?m going in there and I?m gonna make this happen. I?m not gonna jump on the top of the cage and do some stupid dive to the floor or something stupid like that. I said, "These people are gonna cheer, they?re gonna enjoy this and they?re gonna say, "Yeah, I paid $15 to sit here, but I just got $30 worth". And I?m not gonna give them anything that they would see in a WWF match." And that was my principle going in. And that?s what we delivered. They saw drama. Y?know, they knew what was between me & Jimmy Kane for the last 5 years, 4 years. I mean, they knew what that was, so everyone had that on their mind. Plus even our recent fans knew what that last 2 or 3 month build up was between the real, y?know, the shoot that was going on with those guys. We were fighting. They wanted to see who was gonna win, one-on-one. And that?s what wrestling is, I mean, that?s wrestling. Who?s the better man, one-on-one. When you can?t find out any other way, you put them in a cage and you find out which dog comes out of the cage. And that?s what we did. What crazy stuff did you see Jimmy Kane do?

CM: Not a single thing. The closest he came was doing the Undertaker?s "Old School" walk on the top rope when you tried to go over the top. That was the most "new" thing.

RV: And from your perspective, I mean, you heard the crowd. They went nuts for him.

CM: Yes.

RV: From your perspective, why did he not have to do any of that stuff?

CM: Because they were already into him.

RV: That?s right. He was Jimmy Kane. They were into Jimmy Kane and they were into that match. You don?t have to do that stuff. That stuff is fun to do, because you?ve seen me do top rope stuff, y?know, and I do that. But if you have got the top-of-the-line story going, you?ve got a believable character, which I had in Rocco and he had in Jimmy Kane, you don?t have to do that stuff because the fans...even though they?ll cheer for the sick stupid stuff, the fans want to be emotionally involved and they were emotionally involved in Rocco Valentino/Jimmy Kane. And this was their last chance to see it because it was over after that. And so I guess the short answer is, I went into that match wanting to do old school. I wanted to be the Sheik. Except not the Sheik really, because that came later. That?s what?s exciting to me. That?s excitement. That?s excitement. Y?know? Take Vaudeville. Nobody ever swore during Vaudeville. But they talked about sex all the time but you didn?t know they were. Y?know, they had those little things that they said and you were like. "What? Oh. Ha-ha-ha." That?s what I wanted to do. I wanted to entertain everybody and everybody walked out of there going "That sorry son of a... I?m going back next week". And that?s what happened. So yeah, I wish I would have, probably, maybe shown off a little more, But when you are fighting...when you are with someone like Jimmy Kane, it?s almost like you?re fighting for your life. You don?t have any showmanship. It?s not like, "Oh. Here comes this fancy move." You don?t do that. You?re just, like, "What?s the quickest way to win?". And that?s what that was.

CM: So, knowing everything that now 2 years on, knowing everything that that match did to you in terms of phyiscal injuries and potential time off of your career and such, was it worth the sacrifice? Would you do it again if presented with the opportunity to go back?

RV: Yeah, to go back. I wouldn?t do it now just because I don?t think that match will ever be topped. I mean, I think there will be some people who try, but that match had everything. It had history, it had 2 believable characters and it had fan support. Fan support isn?t there anymore and that just makes me so mad that these kids that are coming up now don?t know what fan support is like it was back at the Riverlanes OPW days. That was fan support. I mean, the fans were THE FANS. They were a group. They were a team in and of themselves. And then it was, like, the wrestlers go out and either they fight the fans or they?re with the fans. And that was probably almost the end of that era. Right there. I mean, that match had it all and I would go back and do that match again just because: #1. It was Jimmy Kane. And #2. It probably, to a lot of people, it defined who Rocco Valentino was. They always knew I was kind of tough and that kind of stuff, y?know, and a good wrestler. But I think , just because of my size, that a lot of people wondered what I could do or if I could pull something like that off. Because that was, like, the measure. Yeah, I was on top forever. For a long time. I was the man. But when you talk about a cage match, that?s when you find out. That?s when you seperate the men from the boys. And I think a lot of people at that time looked for me to be a boy and not come out of there as a man. But the exact opposite happened. I took the biggest ass beating that was ever handed out in OPW and stil continued on. So, yeah, I?d do it again. With him. I?d do it again with all those circumstances. With the build up and the feud that was going on and the believabilty and the fans being what the fans were at that time. Yeah.

CM: Well, as we wind this down, is there anything else that you?d like to say about that particular instance?

RV: Yeah, see, it?s so hard to look back at that because even though it?s only 2 years ago, it seems like a decade ago. To realise how far wrestling has...NOT come since then. Because we were just at the pinnacle. Right then, that was it. It was never as big as that after that. And I doubt that it ever probably will be again. Unless something drastic happens. But, like I said, it was almost the end of an era, y?know, and I was just so glad to be one of the defining stars of that era. And it makes me sad that a lot of the new stars coming up don?t respect that era and don?t respect what it takes to be what we were then. Y?know, it?s only 2 or 3 years ago and it?s almost like there?s no memory of it.